26 replies to this topic

[shellbhawaii]

I am a newbie to Storyist and a newbie to this forum. I am a copy editor trying to learn the software for the purpose of creating the uploadable .mobi files for my clients to upload on Kindle. After extensive research and counsel, it seemed this software was “the one” to choose for Mac users. Hooray!

Alas, I am awash in my frustration of attempting to achieve proper formatting when taking Word’s .doc file to an rtf file, importing it to Storyist getting the .story file, then finally exporting to the .mobi file and over to my Kindle.

My problem is the use of the styles and what settings supercede other settings. In short, I can get it LOOKING like it’s correct in Storyiest, but when I export the .mobi and move it to my Kindle there is ONE specific style that isn’t translating properly: section text.

My goal is:
Chapter Title: centered, Initial Caps, start new page, keep with next paragraph. Times New Roman 14pt, regular

Section Text: flush left (no first line indent), Times New Roman 13pt, italics, keep with next paragraph

Section Separator

Body Copy (or even simply default style): First line indent, Times New Roman 12 pt, regular, line spacing 12pt, after paragraph spacing of .2

SO, overall that works fine and looks fine in Storyist. But, when exported, the Section Text is NOT italicized, nor is it flush left. It appears as regular text with the first line indent. I've attached a screen capture of my style set up window for Section Text so you can see my selections.

I tried changing the Outline Level from Body Text to Heading 2, but not only does that then include it in my Table of Contents, but it takes on its own formatting style… which takes me to my second dilemma: can you change the style of your headings? If so, where?

Anyone who can direct me to the error of my ways on the Section Text, it would be much appreciated. It is the ONLY thing that isn’t translating and it’s holding up my work for this client. UGH.

Many thanks for any and all replies.

Steve, if I hear from you directly with some specific instructions, that would be great. I have to say once I start messing with the settings, I get sweeping uninvited changes to the overall document, especially within the body text. Since I’m a newbie, I am clearly presuming it’s user error. Is there any documentation about the specific components of the styles that I could reference. I found the list of the elements on the style edit page, but not what they mean and why I choose which item in the drop down menu, and the ramifications of same. Like I said… NEWBIE. Please forgive my ignorance. I, like the many Mac users on the forum think the software is wonderful, and I look forward to becoming more adept at its use.

Just a note to you that you may already know: when trying to make “too large” of a change in style (like selecting the whole manuscript to apply a single style) Storyist crashes. Did it 3 or 4 times. So, I imposed my learning curve and stopped trying that! ☺

Many thanks for any help that comes my way.

Attached Thumbnails

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[Marguerite]

Hi, welcome to the forums, shellbhawaii!
I think there is an ePub/mobi glitch (i.e., the problem is not in Storyist) that is causing your troubles with the italics. I had a similar experience with a style I created called "Section Text Date." In this case, it was just section text right-aligned and italicized. The solution was to apply the formatting manually. Then it carried over. That's more of a pain than just updating the style, of course, but you can apply the style and then the formatting, so that if you have to export to Word, say, you will still have it in place.

Adobe's ePub creation guide says to apply italics and similar text formatting as character styles. I haven't found this step to be necessary when using Storyist. But it suggests that Adobe is aware of the problem. Also avoid Stanza, which, although in many ways a wonderful program, strips out most of your italics just on general principles.

And yes, styles depend on other styles, so changing one can have unanticipated effects.

Steve may have some better suggestions. In the meantime, hope that helps.
Best,
Marguerite

[shellbhawaii]

Thanks Marguerite.

I had feared my solution would be manual, and the author has a multitude of these throughout the manuscript.
But, I have to scroll through to identify each one anyway if I were to apply a style. Now I'll just do a manual format and hope it holds.
This will be round 15 or so, so I hope it's my last!!

Thanks for the response!

[shellbhawaii]

UPDATE on attempts:

The "section text" that I am setting manually now, selecting italics, no default tab, no first line indent, and flush left alignment, all trying to avoid the dreaded indent... doesn't work.
It retained the itals, but it is still indented, rather than flush left.

Am I missing a setting to avoid the indent in my manual formatting?

Thanks to anyone who has the answer and can let me know.

[Steve]

Hi shellbhawaii,

Welcome to the forums!

shellbhawaii, on 19 January 2011 - 02:14 PM, said:

My problem is the use of the styles and what settings supercede other settings. In short, I can get it LOOKING like it’s correct in Storyiest, but when I export the .mobi and move it to my Kindle there is ONE specific style that isn’t translating properly: section text.

My goal is:
Chapter Title: centered, Initial Caps, start new page, keep with next paragraph. Times New Roman 14pt, regular

Storyist generates .mobi files that follow the Amazon Kindle Publishing Guidelines, which for section text, has the following to say:

"The “normal” text in a Kindle book must be “all defaults”. We encourage content creators to use creative styles for headings, special paragraphs, footnotes, tables of contents and so on but not “normal” text. The reason is that any styling on “normal” text in the HTML would override the user‟s preferred default reading settings. Users tend to report such behavior as a poor experience."

In addition to honoring user formatting preferences (something that many book designers bristle at), there is another reason why you'd want to do this: The Kindle formatting (CSS) engine has changed considerably since version 1. Formatting that looks good on version 1 may not look good on version 3 and vice versa.

That said, if you do want a specific result (and are willing to test your book on the relevant versions of Kindle (Kindle 1, Kindle 2, Kindle 3, Kindle for Mac, etc...)), you can override the formatting that Storyist provides. The last part of the screencast on the home page describes how to generate the intermediate HTML and CSS files that you can then customize. If you choose to do this, though, I'd recommend picking up a copy of Kindle Formatting: The Complete Guide by Joshua Tallent. It does a pretty good job of describing the differences between the various versions of Kindles and documents some of the more troublesome Kindle bugs.

shellbhawaii, on 19 January 2011 - 02:14 PM, said:

Just a note to you that you may already know: when trying to make “too large” of a change in style (like selecting the whole manuscript to apply a single style) Storyist crashes. Did it 3 or 4 times. So, I imposed my learning curve and stopped trying that! ☺

Thank you for mentioning that, and for submitting the crash reports. I spent yesterday trying to reproduce your results without success, and since the reports are anonymous, there wasn't a way to contact you.

Simply taking a large manuscript and applying global style changes doesn't cause a crash, so I expect there is something specific in your imported RTF styles that triggers the bug. Would you mind sending a short example RTF file to the support email address (the actual text doesn't matter, just the styles) so I can reproduce the problem? If I can, I'll get you a fix right away.

-Steve

[Steve]

shellbhawaii, on 19 January 2011 - 04:43 PM, said:

UPDATE on attempts:

The "section text" that I am setting manually now, selecting italics, no default tab, no first line indent, and flush left alignment, all trying to avoid the dreaded indent... doesn't work.
It retained the itals, but it is still indented, rather than flush left.

Am I missing a setting to avoid the indent in my manual formatting?

Thanks to anyone who has the answer and can let me know.

The default Kindle paragraph style defines first line indents. Storyist generates these defaults per Amazon's Guidelines.

If you want to change this, do the following:

1) Export the project and check the "Save intermediate HTML files" check box. Storyist will create a folder with the "source code" for the Kindle project.

2) Find and edit the main.css file.

3) Add a paragraph style selector like this:

p {
text-indent: 0
}

4) Run kindlegen from the command line to generate the mobi file.

This simple change should cause compatibility issues with the various readers.

-Steve

[shellbhawaii]

Thanks for the responses, Steve.
It's never easy, is it!

As for the crashing... I thought I had done a good job of cleaning up formatting in Word before converting to RTF, but the author used some arbitrary styles here and there that you would never see without going line by line. I was going to just "make a new normal" to override any that were still hiding in the doc, but that would remove her italics throughout the doc, and I didn't want to have to go find each one manually and fix! UGH. Let me look further in that RTF to see what I find before I bother you with it.

Back to styles: is there a way, once a style is assigned to a section of text to REMOVE the style? When importing the file, it has no styles assigned, it appears. So, in some cases where I've assigned one, I'd like to remove it and revert to however it was imported, then make manual changes. Is that possible?

Did you see my question about stylizing headings? Is that possible, or are they set in stone? And, are the a mandatory inclusion in the TOC?

You are a trooper to give your time to your forum. In the end, I'm sure it's helpful for you, too. But, when you are simply handholding a newbie, it needs to be acknowledged that you are a gem!

Thanks.

[Steve]

shellbhawaii, on 19 January 2011 - 05:26 PM, said:

As for the crashing... I thought I had done a good job of cleaning up formatting in Word before converting to RTF, but the author used some arbitrary styles here and there that you would never see without going line by line. I was going to just "make a new normal" to override any that were still hiding in the doc, but that would remove her italics throughout the doc, and I didn't want to have to go find each one manually and fix! UGH. Let me look further in that RTF to see what I find before I bother you with it.

It's no bother. I wasn't able to reproduce your crash, so I'm obviously missing something. If you have other suggestions on how to reproduce it, I'm all ears.

shellbhawaii, on 19 January 2011 - 05:26 PM, said:

Back to styles: is there a way, once a style is assigned to a section of text to REMOVE the style? When importing the file, it has no styles assigned, it appears. So, in some cases where I've assigned one, I'd like to remove it and revert to however it was imported, then make manual changes. Is that possible?

You can always undo style changes to the point where you close the file. After that, I'm afraid, the original style information is lost.

One option would be to reimport the style sheet from the RTF file using the Format > Style > Import Styles command. You probably want to leave the "Replace Duplicate Styles" command unchecked.

shellbhawaii, on 19 January 2011 - 05:26 PM, said:

Did you see my question about stylizing headings? Is that possible, or are they set in stone? And, are the a mandatory inclusion in the TOC?

You can stylize the headings by editing the intermediate CSS and customizing the h1/h2/h3 rules. The current ones are:

h1 {
margin-top: 20px;
margin-bottom: 12px;
text-align: left;
}

h2 {
margin-top: 12px;
margin-bottom: 10px;
text-align: left;
}

h3 {
margin-top: 10px;
margin-bottom: 8px;
text-align: left;
}

shellbhawaii, on 19 January 2011 - 05:26 PM, said:

You are a trooper to give your time to your forum. In the end, I'm sure it's helpful for you, too. But, when you are simply handholding a newbie, it needs to be acknowledged that you are a gem!

Thanks! It is helpful to me too. And if you have the question, chances are others do too, so answering them here helps everyone.

-Steve

[shellbhawaii]

Steve,

I had an idea about maybe using Heading 3 as the Outline Level of what I'm trying to make my "Section Text"...
I assigned it that level, and it didn't appear in my TOC, which is good, but it's too big and needs italics.

Can you tell me how to add a command for italics into the code you sent me:

h3 {
margin-top: 10px;
margin-bottom: 8px;
text-align: left;
}

Also, both Header 1 and Header three text appear very large when brought into Kindle. Can I give them a smaller font size?

Lastly, you say after getting into the CSS files and changing the code, I need to run kindlegen from the command line to generate the mobi file.

I know I launch it and that terminal window opens, but what do I do then?

Sorry, I am hoping I don't have to bother you any more if this fix works. This seemed like an easier solution, if it works, than changing the paragraph indent code.

Thanks.

[shellbhawaii]

OK, this is so stupid, I don't really want to post publicly, but...

I assumed I could edit the source code when it appeared in my browser window. NOT.
How do I open the css to edit the header code? Or any code for that matter?
What program do I need to actually code the html?

I know this is outside your counsel on Storyist, but since you are a Mac guy and I have your ear...

Mi el Stupido.

[Steve]

Hi shellbhawaii,

shellbhawaii, on 20 January 2011 - 03:32 PM, said:

I had an idea about maybe using Heading 3 as the Outline Level of what I'm trying to make my "Section Text"...
I assigned it that level, and it didn't appear in my TOC, which is good, but it's too big and needs italics.

Can you tell me how to add a command for italics into the code you sent me:

h3 {
margin-top: 10px;
margin-bottom: 8px;
text-align: left;
}

Also, both Header 1 and Header three text appear very large when brought into Kindle. Can I give them a smaller font size?

To italicize text, use "font-style: italic;"

To set the font size, use "font-size: 2 em;"

for the h3 css would be:

h3 {
font-style:italic;
font-size:2 em;
margin-top: 10px;
margin-bottom: 8px;
text-align: left;
}

The "em" size is the size of an "m" in the current font, and "2" is just a guess in the above example. Experiment to see what works for you.

Note that you don't have to use h3. For example, lets say that you have a quote under each chapter heading that you want to be both centered and italic. In your Storyist file, create a style called "Quote" that has these properties and apply it to the text. The Kindle exporter will create HTML like the following:

<p class="quote">I don't give a damn for a man that can only spell a word one way.</p>

In the css file, you would add a style definition like the following:

.quote {
text-align:center;
font-style:italic:
}

Amazon hosts a discussion forum for Kindle formatting, and if you're planning on digging deeper, you might want to check out the Amazon DTP Forums.

shellbhawaii, on 20 January 2011 - 03:32 PM, said:

Lastly, you say after getting into the CSS files and changing the code, I need to run kindlegen from the command line to generate the mobi file.

I know I launch it and that terminal window opens, but what do I do then?

To run kindlegen from the command line:

1) Open a Terminal window by launching the Terminal application in your Applications/Utilities folder.

2) At the prompt, type "cd <path/to/toc.opf>" where <path/to/toc.opf> is the path to the toc.opf file in your intermediate HTML. If you saved the intermediate files to a folder named MyNovel on the desktop, the command would be "cd ~/Desktop/MyNovel/toc.opf"

3) Drag the kindlegen utility to the console window and press return.

This will generate a file called toc.mobi, which is your Kindle version.

-Steve

[Steve]

shellbhawaii, on 20 January 2011 - 04:16 PM, said:

How do I open the css to edit the header code? Or any code for that matter?
What program do I need to actually code the html?

Any plain text editor will work. Text Edit (in your Applications folder) works well.

-Steve

[shellbhawaii]

So, back to the original issue of trying to indent the author's "locale" that she likes flush left in italics, if I am going to dive into the HTML, I can create the style there, rather than manipulating one of your Storyiest styles. But, that way it's only available in the css for that particular manuscript file, right?

From what I can tell, there is nothing I can do to retain this particular style in Storyist and have it live all the way through to the mobi file for Kindle. Correct?

So, for this author who won't give this up, my answer is to save the directions for this scenario and apply it to the css every time?

Based on all you've shared, it seems to me my easiest choice is to use heading 3, and after exporting it with supporting files, go in and add the font size and style changes to the css, then do the KindleGen thing. I'm going to give that a shot.

Thanks again.

[Steve]

shellbhawaii, on 20 January 2011 - 04:49 PM, said:

From what I can tell, there is nothing I can do to retain this particular style in Storyist and have it live all the way through to the mobi file for Kindle. Correct?

Correct.

-Steve

[Steve]

shellbhawaii, on 20 January 2011 - 04:49 PM, said:

So, back to the original issue of trying to indent the author's "locale" that she likes flush left in italics, if I am going to dive into the HTML, I can create the style there, rather than manipulating one of your Storyiest styles. But, that way it's only available in the css for that particular manuscript file, right?

Editing h3 will affect only the file you are working on too, so there isn't a reason to use h3 instead of your own style.

-Steve

[shellbhawaii]

Well, Steve, I've spent the better part of the day trying to get my feeble brain around the whole Terminal deal.
I thought I did it correctly when it at least stopped giving me a fail notice, and actually generated a bunch of data in the shell window.
But, alas, no mobi file to be found.

My command was: ~/Desktop/SHOT A2, CSS/toc.opf
I dragged the KindleGen utility to the shell (assuming same as "console") and hit return.

The text that appeared (shown below) but can't see evidence of the creation of the toc.mobi file.

I've searched all over the boards and general google searches. I hate wasting your time on this, but since you know the breadth of my issue, I'm hoping you'll stick with me on this a little while longer.

And, once I successfully generate the infamous toc.mobi file, does it replace the toc.opf file currently in use?
Then, since I am clearly long past the Storyist stage, having made changes to the CSS manually, what do I do with the folder of files (as shown on the attached screen capture) to get an updated mobi file to put on my Kindle??

Holy crimole, my apologies to you and any other readers suffering through my ignorance.

[Steve]

Hi shellbhawaii,

shellbhawaii, on 20 January 2011 - 06:18 PM, said:

My command was: ~/Desktop/SHOT A2, CSS/toc.opf
I dragged the KindleGen utility to the shell (assuming same as "console") and hit return.

You're running into command line limitations. The problem above is that your path has spaces in it. Either remove the spaces and run:

cd ~/Desktop/SHOT-A2-CSS/toc.opf

or leave the file name as is and "escape" the spaces:

cd ~/Desktop/SHOT\ A2,\ CSS/toc.opf

shellbhawaii, on 20 January 2011 - 06:18 PM, said:

And, once I successfully generate the infamous toc.mobi file, does it replace the toc.opf file currently in use?

The toc.mobi file is the output of Kindlegen. This is your eBook. The toc.opf file is the input to Kindlegen, and you'll want to keep this around for the next time you make a change to the CSS.

shellbhawaii, on 20 January 2011 - 06:18 PM, said:

Then, since I am clearly long past the Storyist stage, having made changes to the CSS manually, what do I do with the folder of files (as shown on the attached screen capture) to get an updated mobi file to put on my Kindle??

The toc.opf file contains references to the files in this folder. You'll need to keep it around if you want to recreate your Kindle file.

-Steve

[shellbhawaii]

You have been unbelievably kind and patient, but I guess it's time to cry UNCLE!

I tried the file name options you offered, and still got nothing, feel free to review the attached.
I think I'm a lost cause.

Many thanks for all your time.

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• 

[shellbhawaii]

HOORAY!

I kept searching and finally found a post by someone elsewhere describing the similar use of Terminal.
First, I had my steps backwards.
Second, I didn't know I could drag and drop.

It's so easy, as instructed below:step 1: open terminal.app from applications/utilities directory
step 2: drag the kindlegen executable (black rectangle icon) into the terminal.app window.
step 3: drag the .opf file into the terminal.app window.

step 4: hit the enter/return key

TA DA! A .mobi file is born!

[shellbhawaii]

OK, I'm back, but don't cringe!!

I am now an expert at that CSS stuff to make my Section Text appear just right!

But, now it's the Section Separator that is a bugaboo.
As for space between various elements, be that between Chapter and subhead, or between scenes, I presumed I could insert a "Section Separator."
But, whether I create my own, or use one that seems to magically appear in my style menu sometimes, it doesn't translate in Kindle.

I see these breaks of space when I read various Kindle books, so I know they can happen, but what do I do to achieve this?

Any advice is welcome.

In advance of receiving the answer, I wanted to pose two directions I've thought of, but am not sure how to execute:

1. Add some CSS code for a new style into my main css. But, first, what would the code be? And, second, if I do that (as you'd suggested at one point for my first line indent), where/how do I assign that style where I want it? The headings are available to assign when creating the book and assigning styles. How does the new style get applied?

2. If the only option is a manual entry at each point I want the scene break (<br/><br/>), do I go into the individual chapter html files and insert it? And, if so, do I need to do anything special to have these revised html files "speak" to the opf file that I use to generate my new mobi file? Or does the css file already have the "link" in it, as long as my html files stay in the same directory as before?

I"m trying to "talk the talk," but am having difficulty walking the walk!

Thanks.