58 replies to this topic

[thealtruismsociety]

Hey I put a PDF up of the new draft if anyone wants to see that changes. I think it's pretty tight now, but might need some help.

[Orren]

Thoth, on Dec 5 2010, 09:32 PM, said:

If God is omniscient then why would he ever change his mind?

Next time God and I talk, I'll be sure and ask.

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BTW, I don't think you'll find a Hasidic Rebbe, or a rabbi of any sect, who claims to have a direct line to Heaven as the concept of Heaven is not part of the Jewish faith. A direct line to YHVH is another matter entirely.

I dunno, I grew up with a Jewish concept of Heaven, called the Olam Ha'ba. It might not be an exact duplicate of the cloud-and-harp pop culture Christian view, but it's certainly of a similar cloth: http://www.jewfaq.org/olamhaba.htm

There is also Gehenna, or purgatory, where you see what your life could have been.

There is not a Jewish "Hell" per se. There is Sheol, the realm of the dead, but it's not really a burning pit with a devil in charge.

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If you want great hard sci-fi writers who use their science as infrastructure rather than just "grease" check out Isaac Asimov, Larry Niven, Jerry Pournelle, and of course, Sir Arthur C. Clarke....Ah. See? I knew you read Clarke (or at least saw the movie).

Just 2001 the movie, I'm afraid! I've read a number of Asimov short stories, one Niven short story, but not any novels. Nor have I read the other authors, although I've heard of them. They shall find their way into my future reading list! (Currently, I'm still trying to finish Vernor Vinge's A Fire Upon The Deep).

Orren

[Thoth]

Orren, on Dec 6 2010, 05:46 PM, said:

Next time God and I talk, I'll be sure and ask.

Really? You're not going to just speculate about God's thoughts like we were doing before? Okay. If you get an answer about Higgs, let me know. Scientists are waiting patiently.

Orren, on Dec 6 2010, 05:46 PM, said:

I dunno, I grew up with a Jewish concept of Heaven, called the Olam Ha'ba....

Interesting. But it seems a little "left field" to me. (No offense meant. Backing away, smiling.)

I guess religions can evolve just like everything else.
-Thoth

[fizchick]

Holy doodle... where does the time go?

I went to a copy writing workshop at the beginning of the month and got swept away into the void... there were 3 headed pink goats that rang like gongs...

but still, I have gotten to plug along on the book in the wee hours and am doubting myself a little and would love some opinions...

I started out with a bit of a plan, but have been letting my panster self keep going... and let the story unfold...tell itself to me... and it's going along well... BUT.. I have this nagging voice that wants me to go back and read it and do a little more character work now that they have shown up and revealed themselves...

keep going? stop and take inventory?

both?
What works for you?

Thanks!

[Thoth]

fizchick, on Dec 28 2010, 07:00 PM, said:

Holy doodle... where does the time go?
I went to a copy writing workshop at the beginning of the month and got swept away into the void... there were 3 headed pink goats that rang like gongs...

but still, I have gotten to plug along on the book in the wee hours and am doubting myself a little and would love some opinions...

I started out with a bit of a plan, but have been letting my panster self keep going... and let the story unfold...tell itself to me... and it's going along well... BUT.. I have this nagging voice that wants me to go back and read it and do a little more character work now that they have shown up and revealed themselves...
keep going? stop and take inventory?
both?
What works for you?

I'm an inveterate tweaker, Fizzy. I always go back to tweak the story or work out my character sheets. Yes, this really slows me down, which is why I enjoy NaNoWriMo so much: just start writing down and push through until I finish my first draft. It can be agonizing but it is also very satisfying when I'm done—until I have to start on the second draft. Then it's all about tripping over contradictions and falling into plot holes big enough to swallow a three-headed goat.

But that's just me. You have to find out what works for you.

"The flowers that grow in the Spring, tra-la, are crushed under two feet of snow."
-Thoth.

[fizchick]

Thoth, on Dec 28 2010, 05:37 PM, said:

I'm an inveterate tweaker, Fizzy. I always go back to tweak the story or work out my character sheets. Yes, this really slows me down, which is why I enjoy NaNoWriMo so much: just start writing down and push through until I finish my first draft. It can be agonizing but it is also very satisfying when I'm done—until I have to start on the second draft. Then it's all about tripping over contradictions and falling into plot holes big enough to swallow a three-headed goat.

Thanks for sharing your process. I am a bit of a voyeur to the creative process of others...how we create what we create... the journey to the end...the behind the scenes of show...

Thoth, on Dec 28 2010, 05:37 PM, said:

But that's just me. You have to find out what works for you.

Absolutely! and the gift of hearing of others opens me to what I might not have been open to or know about that can inspire my own process evolution.
also, getting to know what might not work, and being able to decide if that is a failure I might want to risk/try/defy...

Have you dug out yet?
as a former Northeaster, I do miss seeing the snow a little.
We are planning on visiting it some time for a day this winter.

warmth to you, Fiz

[Orren]

fizchick, on Dec 29 2010, 10:26 AM, said:

Thanks for sharing your process. I am a bit of a voyeur to the creative process of others...how we create what we create... the journey to the end...the behind the scenes of show...

Here's my general workflow:

1) Start with a basic plot outline. And I mean basic—I have 12 plot points for the entire novel, and the entire third quarter of the novel gets one plot point. Also, fill out character sheets.
2) Do research. As much research as I think I need to make it seem plausible. For my current novel (science fiction) that meant a lot of research, since I'm crap at science and while the book isn't hard science, I wanted to really know the playground in which my novel is playing, even if I could have written with less background.
3) Set a writing goal for myself in words/week. My goal has basically been around 2,000 words/per week. And I've been doing pretty well; I started writing about the beginning of August, and I'm about 38,000 words into it right now. I'd like to be finished this summer, so I'll see if I can pick up the pace, but I have this tendency to keep myself insanely busy at all times...

Here's a more specific "individual writing session" workflow:
1) Start writing
2) Do additional research as necessary
3) When I reach a good stopping point for the session, count up my words, note what I want to do tomorrow.
4) The next writing session, start by editing what I'd previously written. That helps me get back into the mindset of what I was writing previously.
5) Go back to step #1.

When I finish a chapter (my chapters are generally 1500-3500 words), I edit the chapter as a whole, including changing character sheets, etc. as necessary. The outline of the story rarely ever changes, but I fill in a lot of the gaps, change where things are going, etc. And sometimes entire characters or sub-plots are added or deleted. So my writing process consists of a lot of simultaneous editing, but it also means that I am not one of these writers who goes through a dozen drafts. My previous novel, The Deviant went through a total of four drafts, with the second and fourth drafts being "release candidates" that were edited by professional copy editors (the fourth draft is the completed novel). I predict that this novel will not go through four drafts; probably two or three, tops.

Orren

[Thoth]

fizchick, on Dec 29 2010, 01:26 PM, said:

Thanks for sharing your process....

You are welcome. Let us know what you finally decide upon, Fiz.

fizchick, on Dec 29 2010, 01:26 PM, said:

Have you dug out yet?

Not really. For some reason hundreds of vehicles (i.e., buses, trucks, EMS, and cars) had been caught unawares by the storm and got stuck and then abandoned. That slowed things down a lot since a street has to be cleared of big metal obstructions before it's cleared down to the asphalt. That takes time. Normally this can all be done in 36 hours (max) but at the moment the city is "blessed" with more plows than drivers. EMS and Police vehicles get priority. That's done. Primary and secondary roads are mostly cleared. Tertiary roads are about half done. Total cost so far: ~$20M. Give it another two or three days.

fizchick, on Dec 29 2010, 01:26 PM, said:

...as a former Northeaster, I do miss seeing the snow a little.
We are planning on visiting it some time for a day this winter.

The snow can be pretty. But it's probably worth mentioning that 500 people were trapped on NYC's A Train overnight without light or heat and temperatures in the train plummeting down to 15˚F. Hundreds of XMas travelers were trapped at airports since no planes were coming in or going out. And dozens of people died for want of medical assistance. But, yeah, it's pretty. We'll save some for you. (Fluffy white snowball coming your way, Fiz.)

fizchick, on Dec 29 2010, 01:26 PM, said:

warmth to you,...

And you. (I think I may have caught a stomach flu.)
- Thoth

[fizchick]

Orren, on Dec 29 2010, 11:55 AM, said:

Here's my general workflow:
...(as above)....


When I finish a chapter (my chapters are generally 1500-3500 words), I edit the chapter as a whole, including changing character sheets, etc. as necessary. The outline of the story rarely ever changes, but I fill in a lot of the gaps, change where things are going, etc. And sometimes entire characters or sub-plots are added or deleted. So my writing process consists of a lot of simultaneous editing, but it also means that I am not one of these writers who goes through a dozen drafts. My previous novel, The Deviant went through a total of four drafts, with the second and fourth drafts being "release candidates" that were edited by professional copy editors (the fourth draft is the completed novel). I predict that this novel will not go through four drafts; probably two or three, tops.

ahhhhh. such good juicy insight to your process.
I especially like the part about going back and editing the previous day to get into the rhythm of the current... thanks for that... gonna give that a try....
such a newb.

[Marguerite]

Yes, I do that too (edit to get back in the swing of things). I also edit in the evenings by taking notes on my ePub/iBooks file and entering the corrections the next day. The rest of Orren's process seems more organized than I can manage. At best, I have a vague idea of the book as a whole and a clear sense of what I want to do in the next chapter or, if I'm lucky, subplot. Even those things tend to change as I write, but I have to get that far before I can make myself start.

I do use the character, setting, and plot sheets extensively for early idea development and later, during editing. Otherwise, my respect for the truth compels me to admit that I use the sheets primarily as forms of distraction and procrastination, as I am gearing myself up to write. Only later do I get focused on updating the sheets chapter by chapter.

So my process might be described as:
1. Dream up a rough plan for what to do in the next section, including consideration of how those decisions affect other parts of the plot and characterization and whether they create major holes or inconsistencies.
2. Edit the text immediately before that, which is usually the most recent text.
3. Try to get into a zone where the new scene flows onto the page, more or less along the pre-planned lines (but I don't worry too much if it doesn't).
4. Stare at the results with a puzzled expression, then edit as needed to make it fit with the rest.
5. Repeat, from #3 if possible.
Best,
M

[fizchick]

Thoth, on Dec 29 2010, 02:18 PM, said:

(Fluffy white snowball coming your way, Fiz.)


And you. (I think I may have caught a stomach flu.)
- Thoth

Hope you are feeling better!
I think that a fluffy white snow ball is just the right amount of snow.

It is about the same size of the oranges I am growing on my patio. And strawberries. Wild, just wild.

[fizchick]

Orren, Thoth and Marguerite:

You ROCK!

I went back today and started reading the draft from the beginning and notes I took over the last 9 months as I was brewing it and it really ignited a whole new energy for it and ideas, ideas, ideas!

I'm not sure how I will settle into my own process, I do like the process of reading at night and taking some notes and then sleeping on it so my brain can work out details while I sleep...
and then editing a little the previous work to get into the swing of it that day. And notes for the next session of what I plan to do or see happening...
So many yummy nuggets to chew on and try.

My other outlets of creative expression (painting, design for stage, screen, events) have very different time lines and processes for the work and this long fiction is really quite the long term relationship (wonderful) as opposed to the serial dater I have been creatively...

Thanks so much- you have all really been helpful... REALLY helpful.

Fiz on!

[Orren]

Orren, on 02 December 2010 - 11:33 PM, said:

I have a manuscript for a sci-fi novel that I'm about 29,000 words into at this moment, and my goal is to be finished by July 2011. ...If I can write about 2,000 words/week I can probably do it.

Well, I'm not terribly off my mark. It's been about 6 weeks since I wrote that, which would mean I should have written about 12,000 words, putting me at about 41,000 words.

As of this evening, I'm at just over 41,000 words. I won't be writing much if anything for the rest of the week, as the NAMM show takes priority. But at least I've been keeping up until now!

Orren

[Thoth]

I haven't written much lately, or done any kind of work really, due to an illness that is now passing. (Honestly, for a while there it was coming out of both ends. Sir Percy would have taken me for a poison spewing two-headed monster and would have put me out of my misery.) But definitely feeling better now. I'll probably even go shopping for groceries Monday or Tuesday (if it doesn't snow again). I may even get back to writing.
-Thoth.

[Marguerite]

Well, he might have, except that Sir P was in no better shape. Definitely one of the nastier viruses I have encountered in my time. It knocked my productivity into the dumpster too.

Finally got back on track yesterday, and hoping for good things in the new year.

Glad to hear you're feeling better!

Congratulations, Orren,
M

[Joolissa]

Well I wish you both a complete recovery. I'm glad to hear it's on its way.
- Jules

[fizchick]

Orren, on 10 January 2011 - 06:22 AM, said:

Well, I'm not terribly off my mark. It's been about 6 weeks since I wrote that, which would mean I should have written about 12,000 words, putting me at about 41,000 words.

As of this evening, I'm at just over 41,000 words. I won't be writing much if anything for the rest of the week, as the NAMM show takes priority. But at least I've been keeping up until now!

Orren

thanks for the inspiration ( or the firing of my competitive side)!
way to go!

[fizchick]

Sending vibes of radiant health to the east.

and after a few weeks of just picking at my manuscript, I got back into a swing today...
whew.

I just heard this draft referred to as a "don't look down draft" from wile e. coyote being on the line over the canyon and doing fine until he looks down...
I was looking down.... looking back up now...

[Orren]

fizchick, on 11 January 2011 - 02:23 AM, said:

Sending vibes of radiant health to the east.

When you mentioned you were West, I took a look at your location. It seems a few of us are here in Cali! (Steve, you, me, maybe others who don't post as much). I don't think I've ever been to Vista, but I believe I saw it mentioned on a freeway sign when the wife and I drove from Orange County to Comic Con in San Diego (we are card carrying geeks, the both of us!)

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I just heard this draft referred to as a "don't look down draft" from wile e. coyote being on the line over the canyon and doing fine until he looks down...
I was looking down.... looking back up now...

It's easy to get intimidated when you're in the middle. I do all the time, with every book I've written! But stick it out! The feeling of accomplishment when you can look back at a finished draft is worth it—and once you've got as far in as you've gotten, it's not that far to the other side anymore!

Take care,
Orren