30 replies to this topic

[thealtruismsociety]

You know, most places that allow unsolicited submissions (TOR for example) want the first 3 chapters. I have a few questions about this.

Could I just pay to have the first three chapters edited?

Do they have to be the first three? I think my novel is slower going at first then picks up speed after a few chapters.

[Marguerite]

They have to be the first three. Otherwise the publisher figures out that the beginning is slower.

I don't pretend to understand how publishers (agents, editors) think. My sense, though, is that you'd be better off making sure your beginning moves as snappily as it can before sending anything out.

As to paying just for the first three chapters, that's up to you. If the beginning sings enough for someone to ask for the whole ms., but when they get it, it doesn't live up to the beginning, what have you gained? They'll just reject it later. But if you can apply what the editor did to the first three chapters to the rest of the ms. while you're waiting for an answer (six months or more, TOR says) or build up enough funds in the interim to pay someone to take a look at the rest, it might be worth it.

Good luck!
M

[Orren]

Yeah, what Marguerite said! To add my two cents—

thealtruismsociety, on Jun 9 2010, 06:39 AM, said:

You know, most places that allow unsolicited submissions (TOR for example) want the first 3 chapters. I have a few questions about this.
Could I just pay to have the first three chapters edited?

As Marguerite points out, what will happen is if they like it, they will ask for the rest of the book. So I'd recommend that even if you have to get your novel edited in stages as funds permit, you eventually get the whole thing edited. One thing to consider is specifically looking for an editor for the first three chapters, but a proofreader for the rest. At least with Cengage, proofreaders are cheaper than editors. You'd still need to do what Marguerite suggests, and apply yourself all the content suggestions that the editor makes to the whole book.

Quote

Do they have to be the first three? I think my novel is slower going at first then picks up speed after a few chapters.

It needs to be the first three. But don't let that discourage you! Nearly all novels start slower. You can be sure that the assistant who reads your chapters will read with that in mind—she (it's nearly always a she) will want it to be engaging, but it will be read with an expectation that whatever the "tempo" of the first chapters, it will pick up. I personally find novels that start with a bang and then slow to a crawl and bog down in later chapters a real effort to slog through.

Take care,
Orren

[Marguerite]

TAS, here is one alternative to an editor that you may wish to check out: Robert Ray, The Weekend Novelist Rewrites the Novel. It's just a few months old and costs less than $12 at Amazon.com (about 30 minutes of a commercial book editor's time!).

I haven't read it yet, although I have it on order. I do know that the author has reaped much praise, including from our own Steve, for his first book, The Weekend Novelist. So maybe it will give you some hints on how to proceed while you amass sufficient cash to hire a professional. At the very least, it should help you avoid rookie mistakes, if you have any. And unlike so many writing books on the market, it is explicitly tailored to novels, not screenplays.
Best,
M

[Joolissa]

Those look like very interesting books. I have added them to my wish list. Thanks for the recommendation M (albeit meant for TAS )

-Jools

[Orren]

Speaking of editorials, a nice blog on getting the most out of a rewrite:
http://www.alanrinzler.com/blog/2010/06/22...ps-for-authors/

Orren

[Marguerite]

Orren, on Jun 23 2010, 08:29 PM, said:

Speaking of editorials, a nice blog on getting the most out of a rewrite:
http://www.alanrinzler.com/blog/2010/06/22...ps-for-authors/

Orren

Thanks for this link, Orren. Some pretty interesting articles here.
M

[Joolissa]

Thanks from me too. I will definitely check it out.

[landsmann]

Orren, on 07 April 2010 - 05:59 AM, said:

There are a number of answers to that question, depending on how you are asking it:

Do the majority of authors who are sending manuscripts to publishers have their manuscripts professionally edited first?
No. This is more than likely one of the factors why most are rejected by agents and publishers.

Do the majority of authors who have manuscripts accepted by publishers pay to have their manuscripts professionally edited?
Yes. I say this both as an AE for a publisher, and from what I've read other AEs, agents, publishers, and authors write. They wanted to be submitting a truly professional work, and it paid off.

Do the majority of authors who self-publish pay for an editor to professionally edit their book?
No. This is one of the contributing factors as to why most self-published works are considered sub-par and not reviewed by popular newspapers, magazines, blogs, etc.

Have those authors whose self-published works were reviewed by professional sources and sell 4000+ copies paid for their books to be professionally edited?
Yes. Everyone I've read online who had a self-published work that generated significant sales (usually resulting in a large publishing house picking them up) has talked about getting professional editors to edit their book before they started selling it. They wanted their book to be truly "professional quality" in every way, and their investment paid off.

In other words: it is "normal" that authors who achieve a certainly level of success, either in finding representation, a publisher, or self-publishing, front the money for an editor. However, when looking at the vast numbers of authors writing either works to release for free out of personal enjoyment, or who submit material but aren't successful in ever getting published, the majority of authors do not pay for editors.

If someone writes for fun, fan fiction, for friends, or for free blogs/zines because it fulfills them, no need for the expense. But if someone wants to play in the "big leagues" with the pros, the text (and cover art, for that matter, if self-publishing) needs to be as polished as theirs.

Orren

[landsmann]

Very nicely stated. Thanks!

[green_knight]

thealtruismsociety, on 12 March 2010 - 05:25 AM, said:

After I think my novel is completely finish and rewritten to hell I still know I need an editor or someone with a ready grasp of the English language to read the entire thing I make it bleed from the errors. I'm a horrible spelling, my grammar or horrible, I may use an incorrect word here and there, I think finding someone to help my polish my novel that EXTRA bit before I submit it would be great. So, how would I go about doing this?

You do what you're doing right now: ask people you trust for reccommendations.

(Disclaimer: I work as a freelance editor/copy editor, including with self-publishing authors).

If you want to hire an editor to get feedback for your novel, so you can learn and improve and produce better prose, that would be a legitimate reason to pay them.

If you want someone to improve your grammar and pick up typos, you'd be wasting your money, because, to put it bluntly, there's a good chance your manuscript _isn't_ ready for publication yet (few are). And yes, a copy editor will improve those things - but what will you do when you"ve spent $500 on copy editing the manuscript, and an agent or editor gives you feedback, so you rewrite a whole section, and... pay again?

I would reccommend that you approach editors in your genre (this makes a big difference - I'm very familiar with reader expectations in SF/Mystery, and not familiar at all with Romance) with a sample (1-3 chapters) and a synopsis; ask them whether they'd be willing to do an edit/mss evaluation. Ask them for a sample edit of 2-3 pages and a quote - and take it from there.

If your writing has recurring patterns, such as all your scenes take place in white rooms, or your action sequences are full of long convoluted sentences, or... you don't need someone to go through the whole manuscript and mark up every instance; you need them to point it out, and then you can go home and fix every other instance. Just like running spellcheck yourself, it's cheaper that way.

And do consider the alternatives - crit groups and writing workshops. Paying an editor is an option, but not the only way towards a better book.